Found this on another board. It appears Alice in Wonderland has been busted by the German authorities.
https://www.focus.de/panorama/kinderporno-bande-hinter-der-darknet-plattform-alice-in-wonderland-verbarg-sich-das-grauen_id_260377744.html (clearnet, German, no js required, appears safe)
google translation
FOCUS-online-Reporter Axel Spilcker
Tuesday, October 8th, 2024, 6:42 p.m
The name of the Darknet platform sounds like a well-known fairy tale: "Alice in Wonderland". But behind that lay the horror. According to FOCUS online information, at least 200,000 pedocriminals from five continents spread image and video files about child abuse in the isolated forums. A majority apparently came from Germany.
After four years of undercover investigations, between September 24th and 28th, the Duisburg investigators from the special organizational organization "Tsarevich" (Tsar's Son) and 200 police officers uncovered a gang that ran one of the largest digital child porn exchanges on the Darknet.
The nationwide raids took place in North Rhine-Westphalia, Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria, Lower Saxony, Rhineland-Palatinate and Schleswig-Holstein. Seven search warrants were executed. Six main actors between the ages of 43 and 69 were taken into custody. Two suspects come from Jüchen near Neuss and Minden.
At a press conference on Tuesday morning at Duisburg police headquarters, State Interior Minister Herbert Reul spoke of an "investigative complex that is dizzying in scope." According to the politician, pedo criminals have been able to live out "their disgusting fantasies" in the forum since 2019 According to the CDU.
According to the information, this is one of the largest investigative complexes that has been conducted against the German leadership by the police and the North Rhine-Westphalia Cybercrime Central and Contact Point (ZAC NRW) at the Cologne public prosecutor's office since April 2020. The investigations are still ongoing against the other half of the accused abroad.
Before investigating, a detective asked himself: "Can I do that?"
At the press conference, Kai-Arne Gailer described in highly emotional terms why he had decided to take over the leadership of the Investigative Commission (EK) in 2023. He already knew the horrific images of child abuse from another trial. As a father of small children, he couldn't sleep for days. When he was asked whether he wanted to direct the investigation, the chief detective first discussed it with his family. He checked himself: "Can I do that?" Ultimately, the police officer answered this question in the affirmative.
His descriptions of the structure of the child porn platform give an idea of the perfidious ideas that were circulating in "Alice in Wonderland". The forums were run on the German side by the now imprisoned accused. Some of them already had relevant criminal convictions, some were on probation, others had to undergo therapy as a court requirement. And yet the men carried on. Just as junkies need new material, the platform creators created a forum to source new abuse material. Money didn't play a role.
"From magnetic tapes to video cassettes to hard drives and USB sticks"
Duisburg Police Chief Alexander Dierselhuis spoke of an addiction that had to be satisfied again and again. And in large quantities. One suspect alone had bundles of 13.5 terabytes in size. This corresponds to 3.4 million image files. According to the police chief, the entire history of child pornography was confiscated from one of the detainees: "From magnetic tapes to video cassettes to hard drives and USB sticks."
The Internet, social media and digital advances in storage and communication media are causing the numbers in the distribution of child porn files to explode. For years, experts have been reporting how easy it is to access the worst abuse recordings with just a few clicks. Markus Hartmann, head of the ZAC, emphasized that "the digital infrastructure is now a central factor" for the spread of child pornography.
The forums like "Alice in Wonderland" operated according to fixed rules. Set up by the operators, explained the EK boss Gailer. The arrested leadership team was divided into administrators and global moderators. These men established a set of rules. How do you get into the secret chats and forums, which "goods" grant access to the various platforms. The users acted under legends. The worse the material, the more reputation points the provider gained. It was like a bazaar. The users used the suffering of children against the suffering of other children.
"First of all, there were rules," said the chief detective, that no sexual torture was allowed. However, the operators later deviated from their specifications. A so-called "toddler area" was created that depicted the abuse of babies. Some users of the platform sought contact with criminals who promised to give them access to infants or children.
A tip from Bavaria got the proceedings rolling
In chat sessions, the platform's users talked about their perverted tendencies. Girls were no longer viewed as children, "but as sex objects," explained Gailer. There was also advice on how best to make the victims compliant. "With gifts, alcohol or medication," explained the head of the investigation.
The mammoth process was triggered by a tip from Bavaria. The police there had identified suspects in another child porn case. A lead led to a user in Duisburg. When the investigators showed up at his house, the man gave in and revealed his access data to platforms like "Alice in Wonderland".
The investigators have now managed to identify at least 450 users - the number is increasing every day. Since the perpetrators usually hide behind false names on the Darknet, prosecutors have to carry out painstaking criminal work to filter out the true identity of the people behind the legends using images, files or clues from the seized chats. "There is still a long way to go here," explained Gailer.
In the Duisburg police livestream of the press conference, he addressed the still unknown pedocriminals on the exposed platform: "I know that some of these people are watching." And further: "They are destroying these children."
NRW Justice Minister appeals for traffic lights
The SOKO boss appealed to users to get out. When the police are at the door, it is too late for active remorse.
After the strike against one of the largest child porn platforms on the Darknet, NRW Justice Minister Benjamin Limbach sees the traffic light coalition in Berlin as having a duty to create a new regulation for data retention. "We are calling on the federal government to create a legally secure basis for the storage of IP addresses by telecommunications providers and internet service providers," said the Green politician. The North Rhine-Westphalia government had already introduced a corresponding initiative for a new legal regulation to the Federal Council a week ago. have been preventing an amendment to data retention for a good decade The Federal Justice Ministers of the FDP. And this despite the fact that the European Court of Justice already allows limited use.
Especially in the area of child pornography and abuse on the Internet, many traces are lost because providers are currently only obliged to keep their customers' accounts available for up to seven days. As a result, many clues about crimes committed by child molesters or pedo-criminal users of child porn forums fall flat. State Interior Minister Herbert Reul (CDU) agreed with his Green cabinet colleague: "We have to get to these people's IP addresses. We need to know more quickly who is sitting behind the computer and where."
"You can't hide on the dark web"
Markus Hartmann, head of the nationwide cybercrime central office (ZAC) at the Cologne public prosecutor's office, has concrete ideas about how the new bill should be designed. In an interview with FOCUS online, the senior public prosecutor advocates "for a moderate storage period" in order to finally make a difference in Berlin. Hartmann could imagine a limit of between two and four weeks. "The fact is, the current seven-day deadline doesn't help us get to the perpetrators."
In view of the huge amounts of data confiscated, the complex investigations in cyberspace and the human resources, the chief prosecutor relies on automated procedural analyzes using, among other things, artificial intelligence. At the ZAC, twelve prosecutors in a task force take care of the child porn cases. Since its founding in 2017, 25,000 cases have been processed. Hartmann reports that his colleagues are working to their limits. New staff is desirable, but seems unrealistic given the precarious budget situation. The raid against the child porn platform "Alice in Wonderland" once again makes it clear that "there are still significant challenges ahead of us," admitted the ZAC boss.
His employer Limbach spoke of a long road ahead in the fight against online pedo criminals. However, this "bang" was noticed in the scene. "It sends an unmistakable signal to all perpetrators of child abuse: You cannot hide in the dark web," emphasized the Green politician.
Yeah, it seems another one of the greatest has fallen.
QuoteAfter four years of undercover investigations, ...
Apparently AiW was 5 years active so, as we suspected ,LEA infiltrate those kind of sites practically since it's inception.
Quote from: radagast37 on 09 October, 2024, 18:23:29Yeah, it seems another one of the greatest has fallen.
QuoteAfter four years of undercover investigations, ...
Apparently AiW was 5 years active so, as we suspected ,LEA infiltrate those kind of sites practically since it's inception.
We can know they are here as well.
QuoteIn chat sessions, the platform's users talked about their perverted tendencies. Girls were no longer viewed as children, "but as sex objects," explained Gailer. There was also advice on how best to make the victims compliant. "With gifts, alcohol or medication," explained the head of the investigation.
I wonder what those agents would think about this site. We have our own share of stories here.
QuoteWe can know they are here as well.
PSC has existed for over a decade, sure they taking his time.
(merged double post)
They're here, one even said it officially (there was a thread for pedos seeking help). But I doubt they made it into the staff (although we can never be sure). I assume they just read everything, collect evidence, try to deanonymize individual people. Maybe they write to them and make "friends," although I doubt it ever happened to me (nobody tried milking me for identifying details yet).
Quote from: girlsmom on 07 August, 2024, 00:52:41It does seem like a lot of these sites disappear weekly. But, if the demand is still there, which I think it is, others pop up. The problem is they are hard to search for. Searching on Tor is next to impossible.
The search result depends a lot on the search engine, some have restrictions while others make it easier, so searching for something on the Darkweb means using several search engines, some are good for this and others for that, the gateways are easier to maintain and restore, perhaps they suffer fewer attacks, when it happens it is usually by "anti" groups because the authorities know that it will be a waste of time and resources, there is nothing big about them that justifies a large operation, perhaps they even prefer these sites to be online to use them to monitor the emergence of new sites.
Websites are a bridge for new users or seasonal users, other people store the links, in the case of PSC there is a lifeboat with updates on the website with the appropriate means of validating the information, unfortunately many members may still think that the website is offline.
Quote from: Neighbor on 09 October, 2024, 17:25:12Found this on another board. It appears Alice in Wonderland has been busted by the German authorities.
https://www.focus.de/panorama/kinderporno-bande-hinter-der-darknet-plattform-alice-in-wonderland-verbarg-sich-das-grauen_id_260377744.html (clearnet, German, no js required, appears safe)
Thanks for bringing us the news, it also helps with OPSEC issues
I don't know about AiW content, I don't know where the line of truth was drawn so I'll just make observations based on general events.
There is indeed a huge difficulty in finding people on the Darkweb, this speech that they have mechanisms to break the security of the Darkweb is present in all these cases, in the vast majority of cases these people are discovered crossing the OPSEC line, doing something in the real world or on the Clearnet or thinking they are safe in some Deep layer (as is the case with some chat applications), when they say they have infiltrated some people think they are using great technologies and breaking security, however it is just a registration on the site, with that they can monitor conversations, create purposeful conversations that can go in some direction to collect sensitive data.
That's why we always emphasize that "you don't know who's on the other side", I add that as harmful as an anti can be to an abuser, for me both are there for the same reason, to hurt nice people, they think that just because we are Pedos we are abusers.
The fact that those responsible are already registered shows that the CP punishment policy is not having the effect they expected, they talk about the amount of CP found, these large numbers are also present in the pornographic content of people addicted to adult pornography, and there is just not a greater amount of people with these amounts because adult porn is released and has large investments, providing content consumption and cloud storage.
It's a simple mechanic, if there aren't a large number of large sites like AiW, it's not because it's difficult for them to exist, but because the existence of two or three sites supplies those who consume this content, another site will take its place, again with only half a dozen administrators and members who don't represent an impact on the industry that actually creates the content.
There are softcore sites that prohibit content with abuse, and a portion of the percentage decrease in these sites is because Clearnet is offering softcore. For some time now I have been following the growth of content on social media using teenagers and children, many people being encouraged by the gains of public interactions with these videos, with AI and new trends, the authorities have to start opening space for honest discussions about Pedo and CP.
These terabytes will not disappear, the number of people grows every year, pornography is like a drug for many people, many are not even Pedos, they were just looking for a different kind of pornography, the government's failure to provide basic structures for their region creates problems that make people look for legal drugs like alcohol and create sexual content to survive, all this money, time and people could be used to find missing people instead of punishing people with no history and just for viewing a photo.
Quote from: LateComer on 09 October, 2024, 23:02:27Quote from: radagast37 on 09 October, 2024, 18:23:29Yeah, it seems another one of the greatest has fallen.
QuoteAfter four years of undercover investigations, ...
Apparently AiW was 5 years active so, as we suspected ,LEA infiltrate those kind of sites practically since it's inception.
We can know they are here as well.
Yes, they are, from time to time an anti appears too, as well as institutions that support Peds, I am happy that institutions like Prevent it know the site and use it to publicize their work, after all it is a support site, I just hope that the authorities that monitor the PSC show common sense, that they observe that they are nice people and do not harm anyone.
You can talk, there is space for us to discuss honestly here, a space that neither the authorities nor the media offer us.
Quote from: stalker on 10 October, 2024, 13:31:41They're here, one even said it officially (there was a thread for pedos seeking help). But I doubt they made it into the staff (although we can never be sure).
Was that member banned?
Quote from: LateComer on 10 October, 2024, 22:03:16Quote from: stalker on 10 October, 2024, 13:31:41They're here, one even said it officially (there was a thread for pedos seeking help). But I doubt they made it into the staff (although we can never be sure).
Was that member banned?
No idea, I can't find this thread now. Maybe someone else will. But is there a reason for banning him? They'll get here anyway, just hiding behind a plausible story.
I'm just here until I'm eligible for pension. :rofl
Quote from: The PigsAfter the strike against one of the largest child porn platforms on the Darknet, NRW Justice Minister Benjamin Limbach sees the traffic light coalition in Berlin as having a duty to create a new regulation for data retention. "We are calling on the federal government to create a legally secure basis for the storage of IP addresses by telecommunications providers and internet service providers," said the Green politician. The North Rhine-Westphalia government had already introduced a corresponding initiative for a new legal regulation to the Federal Council a week ago. have been preventing an amendment to data retention for a good decade The Federal Justice Ministers of the FDP. And this despite the fact that the European Court of Justice already allows limited use.
Yeah and I'm sure the government will
only use that power to go after child pornographers. :roll
Because when has a
German government ever abused its authority? :P
Quote from: stalker on 10 October, 2024, 13:31:41But I doubt they made it into the staff
Yeah... Who knows, right?
I remember when I sounded confident about that and I had staff themselves saying something like "What? Of course I'm an FBI agent. We are all FBI agents here. Trust nobody.".
It was an obvious joke but with a lesson - only way to be truly safe here is not to be identifiable, neither by any other member nor by any staff member.
Unless you're someone who never did anything and never thought of doing anything either, then, it's fine.
I do wonder now and then though. "What if this one staff actually works busting the "top offenders" or smth...
What if............ Lots of "what if"s.
You know the saying: Better call Sau-i mean, better play it safe. Always.
Quote from: on the rocks on 11 October, 2024, 00:04:46I'm just here until I'm eligible for pension. :rofl
Quote from: The PigsAfter the strike against one of the largest child porn platforms on the Darknet, NRW Justice Minister Benjamin Limbach sees the traffic light coalition in Berlin as having a duty to create a new regulation for data retention. "We are calling on the federal government to create a legally secure basis for the storage of IP addresses by telecommunications providers and internet service providers," said the Green politician. The North Rhine-Westphalia government had already introduced a corresponding initiative for a new legal regulation to the Federal Council a week ago. have been preventing an amendment to data retention for a good decade The Federal Justice Ministers of the FDP. And this despite the fact that the European Court of Justice already allows limited use.
Yeah and I'm sure the government will only use that power to go after child pornographers. :roll
Because when has a German government ever abused its authority? :P
Yeah, besides, the only thing our tiers of membership increase in terms of increased access, is availability of staff nudes. As if we didn't already make those available for all members: http://onion.tor.my/forum/index.php?topic=25608.0
Quote from: TheVillain on 11 October, 2024, 05:14:52I remember when I sounded confident about that and I had staff themselves saying something like "What? Of course I'm an FBI agent. We are all FBI agents here. Trust nobody.".
Sounds like something LH would say :)
But it's true. There's nothing preventing LEA from creating a plausible-looking profile and working up the ranks, gaining trust, etc. Maybe even for years.
I don't have any suspicious (about the staff, or about anyone in particular), but it's wise to assume that such possibility is well, possible. And to assume that everyone's a LEO, at least when deciding which of the potentially identifying information to share (even in private, even with PGP). And even if someone's not a LEO, they can be busted, their data compromised, their encryption keys beaten out of them.
Quote from: TheVillain on 11 October, 2024, 05:14:52It was an obvious joke but with a lesson - only way to be truly safe here is not to be identifiable, neither by any other member nor by any staff member.
True. That's how all these other busts were made. LEA gained access to PMs and just read identifying information left by users who trusted each other, and trusted the platform.
Quote from: TheVillain on 11 October, 2024, 05:14:52Unless you're someone who never did anything and never thought of doing anything either, then, it's fine.
Even in such case I still wouldn't trust LEA.
Quote from: TheVillain on 11 October, 2024, 05:14:52I do wonder now and then though. "What if this one staff actually works busting the "top offenders" or smth...
What if............ Lots of "what if"s.
We (members) all do different things for a living. There's no reason to assume there are no LEOs here. After all, even Kenneth Freeman was a LEO, and made many busts (on Kylie, but still).
Quote from: on the rocks on 11 October, 2024, 00:04:46Yeah and I'm sure the government will only use that power to go after child pornographers. :roll
Because when has a German government ever abused its authority? :P
I'm sure they were trying their best to hide their grin while saying that.
"Oh no, people are abusing children, that is so horrible :D we need to pass these privacy-destroying laws ASAP to stop this activity :D if you are a law-abiding citizen, you have absolutely nothing to worry about"
Pedophilia and terrorism, the two biggest strawmen of our time.
Quote from: stalker on 11 October, 2024, 23:51:34Quote from: TheVillain on 11 October, 2024, 05:14:52I remember when I sounded confident about that and I had staff themselves saying something like "What? Of course I'm an FBI agent. We are all FBI agents here. Trust nobody.".
Sounds like something LH would say :)
Sounds like something an FBI agent would say. :P
Quote from: on the rocks on 11 October, 2024, 00:04:46I'm just here until I'm eligible for pension. :rofl
Quote from: The PigsAfter the strike against one of the largest child porn platforms on the Darknet, NRW Justice Minister Benjamin Limbach sees the traffic light coalition in Berlin as having a duty to create a new regulation for data retention. "We are calling on the federal government to create a legally secure basis for the storage of IP addresses by telecommunications providers and internet service providers," said the Green politician. The North Rhine-Westphalia government had already introduced a corresponding initiative for a new legal regulation to the Federal Council a week ago. have been preventing an amendment to data retention for a good decade The Federal Justice Ministers of the FDP. And this despite the fact that the European Court of Justice already allows limited use.
Yeah and I'm sure the government will only use that power to go after child pornographers. :roll
Because when has a German government ever abused its authority? :P
Interesting they're fighting so hard for more retention now. I think they may be smelling blood in the water after their attack on Boystown...
http://onion.tor.my/forum/index.php?topic=26258
Makes me ponder where on the LEA priority list our little old site is. :think
We're only engaging in thought crimes at PSC, so things would really have to be going the cops' way in terms of policing the darkweb to make us a priorty. Assuming, of course, we don't do something stupid and serve ourselves up on a silver platter. :P
Quote from: on the rocks on 15 October, 2024, 02:27:25Makes me ponder where on the LEA priority list our little old site is. :think
We're only engaging in thought crimes at PSC, so things would really have to be going the cops' way in terms of policing the darkweb to make us a priorty. Assuming, of course, we don't do something stupid and serve ourselves up on a silver platter. :P
Well, I suppose one could also try to argue that we somehow facilitate/encourage abuse when we support adult-child relationships that are purported to us. Not even really sure that could be considered against the law anywhere, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was.
Quote from: LikelyHuman on 15 October, 2024, 02:33:12Well, I suppose one could also try to argue that we somehow facilitate/encourage abuse when we support adult-child relationships that are purported to us. Not even really sure that could be considered against the law anywhere, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if it was.
I believe LEA have bigger problems than this site. If they learned a big producer or sharing site operator was here maybe they change their minds. Now the site is more useful for intelligence and chance of picking off low hanging fruit.
Some people here admit that they have accessed CP, so I guess there might be an incentive to go after them.
Frankly speaking, what happened is scary. All previous attacks were done because someone either was dumb, or made a mistake. This attack is different. Mr. Anders used outdated software, but what would prevent them from capturing traffic for years and analyzing it when flaws are found in (up to date) software used at that time?
Quote from: stalker on 15 October, 2024, 09:14:28Some people here admit that they have accessed CP, so I guess there might be an incentive to go after them.
Frankly speaking, what happened is scary. All previous attacks were done because someone either was dumb, or made a mistake. This attack is different. Mr. Anders used outdated software, but what would prevent them from capturing traffic for years and analyzing it when flaws are found in (up to date) software used at that time?
To be clear, I think you're talking about the Boystown bust? As far as I'm aware this AiW bust was really mostly the result of a tip. The Boystown one was, allegedly, a timing-analysis attack.
But I think that's kind of what the legislators talking about retention are planning for.
QuoteTo be clear, I think you're talking about the Boystown bust? As far as I'm aware this AiW bust was really mostly the result of a tip. The Boystown one was, allegedly, a timing-analysis attack.
That's something which confuses me. When AiW was taken down they left a banner which read:
Anti.Pedo.Sec
Tango Down
Profile information, registration data, login times and dates, public posts, posted media, unencrypted private messages andnIP addresses.
We are everywhere.
If it was really LEA who took down that site, why brag like that? What is this Anti.Pedo.Sec? Is it like Anonymous? Did they hacked the site and send the data to the authorities which then took all the credit?
So many questions.
Well i am glad i never joined AiW now. I only used the Links pages they had open.
Quote from: radagast37 on 15 October, 2024, 19:44:18That's something which confuses me. When AiW was taken down they left a banner which read:
Anti.Pedo.Sec
Tango Down
Profile information, registration data, login times and dates, public posts, posted media, unencrypted private messages andnIP addresses.
We are everywhere.
If it was really LEA who took down that site, why brag like that? What is this Anti.Pedo.Sec? Is it like Anonymous? Did they hacked the site and send the data to the authorities which then took all the credit?
So many questions.
Everything they claim makes sense to me except the IP addresses. I thought the entire point of staying within Tor (as opposed to exiting to clearweb) is that the user's IP is masked by the Tor encryption/routing process.
QuoteEverything they claim makes sense to me except the IP addresses. I thought the entire point of staying within Tor (as opposed to exiting to clearweb) is that the user's IP is masked by the Tor encryption/routing process.
The worst thing that could have happened is that they finally managed to crack down the system and obtain the IP address if the users, the reason many people on the Darkest are panicking right now. As someone mentioned before Tor has been a thing for over 15 years and technology is constantly evolving. This program are infallible.... until they aren't
Quote from: radagast37 on 15 October, 2024, 23:29:01The worst thing that could have happened is that they finally managed to crack down the system and obtain the IP address if the users, the reason many people on the Darkest are panicking right now. As someone mentioned before Tor has been a thing for over 15 years and technology is constantly evolving. This program are infallible.... until they aren't
Maybe they finally show their hand from Childs Play many years ago. Big case with many arrests. Judge threw out because prosecutor did not share zero day details.
Quote from: LikelyHuman on 15 October, 2024, 14:30:36To be clear, I think you're talking about the Boystown bust?
Yes. I got confused because I never visited any of these two.
Quote from: radagast37 on 15 October, 2024, 23:29:01The worst thing that could have happened is that they finally managed to crack down the system and obtain the IP address if the users, the reason many people on the Darkest are panicking right now. As someone mentioned before Tor has been a thing for over 15 years and technology is constantly evolving. This program are infallible.... until they aren't
Tor doesn't expose your IP address. The only way to get it is with Javascript, if you have that disabled (as you should), then you are good.
Quote from: radagast37 on 15 October, 2024, 23:29:01QuoteEverything they claim makes sense to me except the IP addresses. I thought the entire point of staying within Tor (as opposed to exiting to clearweb) is that the user's IP is masked by the Tor encryption/routing process.
The worst thing that could have happened is that they finally managed to crack down the system and obtain the IP address if the users, the reason many people on the Darkest are panicking right now. As someone mentioned before Tor has been a thing for over 15 years and technology is constantly evolving. This program are infallible.... until they aren't
So, not being pedantic here, but Tor has been around for a lot longer than 15 years. The protocol itself was devised by the U.S. Navy in 1994, and was actually implemented in software for the first time in 2002. I think the 15 year figure you're getting is the inception of The Tor Project in 2006 (though, technically, that is 18 years and not 15... Okay I'm being a
little pedantic now.)
Mostly I'm pointing that out because it's a testament to how robust it really is. The recent takedown of Boystown has lead to a lot of murmurs about how much longer Tor can remain safe, if it still is, but there's a
lot about that takedown which is still yet to be widely confirmed and analyzed. I did start a thread for technical discussions of that here: http://onion.tor.my/forum/index.php?topic=26258.0
Basically, if the reports are to be believed, the authorities pulled off the one attack Tor was most vulnerable to, but that was always said to be impossible. Now there's all his fear that Tor isn't safe anymore if they could pull that off. However, The Tor Project contends that it was actually due to the person using out-dated software that facilitated
another type of attack that makes the timing-analysis attack everyone thought was something impossible, into something exponentially easier to accomplish. When I say exponentially, it's not figurative; literally, the amount of data they had to churn through would have been exponentially larger without a "entry guard" attack facilitating the "timing analysis" attack.
Lol hard to think
that isn't a technical rundown but basically it's like saying that in nearly 30 years time, there
could have possibly been one protocol-breaking attack on Tor, and even when it took the authorities seizing an ISP that serves a 3rd of an entire country, they probably wouldn't have pulled it off if the person caught hadn't been using out-dated software that allowed the compounded attack.
Quote from: on the rocks on 15 October, 2024, 02:27:25Makes me ponder where on the LEA priority list our little old site is. :think
We're only engaging in thought crimes at PSC, so things would really have to be going the cops' way in terms of policing the darkweb to make us a priorty. Assuming, of course, we don't do something stupid and serve ourselves up on a silver platter. :P
They probably have people on here just in case someone slips up but I doubt they're actively trying to find the owners and take this site down lol. There's no CP on here so it's definitely low on their priority list. One of the ChildsPlay admins used to post here before they got caught and I don't think they found that out until way after lol
I haven't been on Tor in a long while and haven't been on a CP site in even longer, but it's still weird how the admins running these very illegal child porn sites leave enough of a paper trail that they all get caught one after another as soon as one person gets caught. If these admins followed their own OPSEC rules they'd be free right now. Every time I see an article about the arrest of a CP forum admin, they made some very avoidable mistake because they thought with their cock more than their brain.
Quote from: Enchantress on 18 December, 2024, 21:24:17I haven't been on Tor in a long while and haven't been on a CP site in even longer, but it's still weird how the admins running these very illegal child porn sites leave enough of a paper trail that they all get caught one after another as soon as one person gets caught. If these admins followed their own OPSEC rules they'd be free right now. Every time I see an article about the arrest of a CP forum admin, they made some very avoidable mistake because they thought with their cock more than their brain.
Well, the blood-flow gets diverted...
That's why
we put a girl in charge.
Quote from: LikelyHuman on 18 December, 2024, 23:54:40That's why we put a girl in charge.
Was that really why tho? "><
Quote from: Enchantress on 18 December, 2024, 21:24:17If these admins followed their own OPSEC rules they'd be free right now. Every time I see an article about the arrest of a CP forum admin, they made some very avoidable mistake because they thought with their cock more than their brain.
In some of these busts the arrogance of the admin was their undoing. Warhead for example made an error in the code of his site which allowed the attackers track the server. Ironic since his background was cyber security.
No doubt in my mind LEA are here and monitoring / interacting. But to gain what?
Nothing illegal happening on here. PSC is militant about not being a media sharing site and we actively clamp down on certain behavior.
As an aside I find it amusing we have a member with the initials are DoJ, which are also the initials of a three letter government agency.
Still, it possible to be ensnared anyplace. A LE agent could chat you up, pull you somewhere else on temptation of trading, pedo friendship, discussing details of past or current activity.
Quote from: Pat975 on 02 January, 2025, 18:14:08No doubt in my mind LEA are here and monitoring / interacting. But to gain what?
Nothing illegal happening on here. PSC is militant about not being a media sharing site and we actively clamp down on certain behavior.
As an aside I find it amusing we have a member with the initials are DoJ, which are also the initials of a three letter government agency.
We have had users on here, who also ran big CP sites. Often with different names, but if they put together those dots already, it would make sense to try and be a trusted member here.
Quote from: ReturnOfTheChampion on 07 January, 2025, 12:54:16Quote from: Pat975 on 02 January, 2025, 18:14:08No doubt in my mind LEA are here and monitoring / interacting. But to gain what?
Nothing illegal happening on here. PSC is militant about not being a media sharing site and we actively clamp down on certain behavior.
As an aside I find it amusing we have a member with the initials are DoJ, which are also the initials of a three letter government agency.
We have had users on here, who also ran big CP sites. Often with different names, but if they put together those dots already, it would make sense to try and be a trusted member here.
Not to mention that nobody ever believes we don't actually have some secret side of the site where we actually trade.
Besides that, though, you can't really discount the zeal with which some want to persecute pedophiles under the guise of protecting children. There was a website that was nothing but fictional stories that they seized under decency laws. On PSC, we have fictional as well as non-fictional stories. If you think about it just in terms of that, there's more than enough reason for law-enforcement to keep tabs on us.
For all we know PSC is LEA run.
If it is, they don't pay very well to be an admin. :lol
Quote from: on the rocks on 13 January, 2025, 02:56:29If it is, they don't pay very well to be an admin. :lol
What?!?!? I thought the offer was coming... :(
Quote from: Pat975 on 02 January, 2025, 18:14:08No doubt in my mind LEA are here and monitoring / interacting. But to gain what?
Anything they can.
Profiles. Data. Intelligence.
Because that's what you do when you decide something is bad, an enemy, a criminal. This approach is crazy and only makes things worse.
They should instead think: this is natural phenomena that won't go away. Let's stop fighting a war that can't be won and help everyone involved. Pedos and children alike. Only then will things change for the better. But that doesn't generate support or votes like hate and division does. So on we go, both sides living in fear. Pedos scared and parents scared. Nothing but misery to follow.
Quote from: Moon Child on 06 April, 2025, 17:33:12Quote from: Pat975 on 02 January, 2025, 18:14:08No doubt in my mind LEA are here and monitoring / interacting. But to gain what?
Anything they can.
Profiles. Data. Intelligence.
Because that's what you do when you decide something is bad, an enemy, a criminal. This approach is crazy and only makes things worse.
They should instead think: this is natural phenomena that won't go away. Let's stop fighting a war that can't be won and help everyone involved. Pedos and children alike. Only then will things change for the better. But that doesn't generate support or votes like hate and division does. So on we go, both sides living in fear. Pedos scared and parents scared. Nothing but misery to follow.
Well, I wouldn't say it necessarily has to be law enforcement either. There's probably a lot of private enterprise that would be happy to sell access to such data and profiles to law enforcement or whoever else might want it.
Quote from: LikelyHuman on 06 April, 2025, 18:11:18Well, I wouldn't say it necessarily has to be law enforcement either. There's probably a lot of private enterprise that would be happy to sell access to such data and profiles to law enforcement or whoever else might want it.
True. That's likely most accurate. Private companies collect it (because they're better at it) and then sell it to law enforcement as a service. LE may also just demand or seize it if they don't want to pay because you know, laws. They're the "good guys" catching "bad guys" after all.
Data collecting is big business. Lot of money in it.
Out of all of this a few questions still remain. Did they ever catch "Alice/Fenixx"? If they did, when did they? How did they? What of APSec's involvement in this case? What role did APSec play if any? If Alice was caught, I personally would like to see the pedo behind the computer, for curiosities sake.